Wednesday, 1 July 2009
Greek smoking ban: predictably half-assed
Well, it's the day they said would never come:
Greece has introduced a ban on smoking in hospitals, schools, vehicles and all public places.
Those who break the new law face fines of up to 500 euros (£428), and businesses risk losing licences after several offences.
Needless to say, this being the old country, they've got the whole thing arse-over-tit. You thought your government was incompetent:
Just one day before Greece is due to introduce strict regulations to crack down on smoking in public places, in line with European Union law, the Health Ministry yesterday still had not issued the official decision explaining the obligations of bars and restaurants.
Late on Tuesday afternoon, after the Health Minister had partaken of a leisurely meal, enjoyed a long siesta and then spent five minutes having a really good, deep and satisfying scratch of his balls, the directive was finally released.
According to the new regulations, bars and restaurants larger than 70 square meters must create separate sections for smokers, while owners of establishments smaller than 70 square meters must decide whether to declare the premises exclusively smoking or nonsmoking.
That's correct, reader: the Greek way of "enforcing" a smoking ban is to force pubs and bars to choose either to force people not to smoke, or to declare themselves "exclusively smoking". And I'm proud to say my countrymen have not let me down:
The City of Athens yesterday said that it had received 400 applications from establishments smaller than 70 square meters for the special sticker that will establish them as nonsmoking premises. These 400 bars and restaurants represent about one in 10 of establishments of their size in Athens.
At a stroke, then, by giving out a few hundred no smoking stickers (which will be ignored in the vast majority of cases anyway), the Greek government has created a few thousand "exclusively smoking" pubs. Apparently this is known locally as the "cigar bar license".
What the fuck is an "exclusively smoking" bar, anyway? Are all the patrons required to light up or face expulsion? Can you be warned for slow toking? So now instead of having a city full of smoky bars, you now have a city full of bars who have to maintain a minimum level of air toxicity to keep up appearances. Great work, guys.
"Hey, Stavros, this guy's not inhaling!" "Where?"
Only in Greece.
Labels: Euroweenies, Health, Idiotarians, Nanny state
Comments:
<< Home
Sounds great, I knew we could rely on Greece to keep the choice of whether to smoke in a bar or not. It was simply a question of whether it was done by putting two fingers up or by the satdard incompetance.
"(which will be ignored in the vast majority of cases anyway)"
If we here in the UK only had the balls that the Greeks do, especially the bar owners, and stick two fingers up at the ban ( and the rabid anti smokers) and say, FUCK YOU.
Well done Greece, don't be these criminal healthists screw you, screw them!
John H Baker
Freedom2Choose dot info
If we here in the UK only had the balls that the Greeks do, especially the bar owners, and stick two fingers up at the ban ( and the rabid anti smokers) and say, FUCK YOU.
Well done Greece, don't be these criminal healthists screw you, screw them!
John H Baker
Freedom2Choose dot info
A classic example of how we gold-plate every Euro diktat and the Southern Europeans cheerfully ignore (or pay half-assed lip service to) those that don't suit them.
This is a token ban to comply with the Framework Conevention On Tobacco Control. At least the Greeks allow their people choice. What is your problem Mr Eugenides? You can now avoid a smoking environment if you choose to.Same as someone who wishes to smoke/doesnt care either way, can enter an appropriate environment. The property owner chooses what type of establishment he would lioke to run. The fact that only 400 venues want to be non-smoking says it all.
Back to Kefalonia for my hols next year methinks!
Back to Kefalonia for my hols next year methinks!
Excellent --sounds like the situation in Spain.
Only problem was the Spanish banned fag sales from all outlets except specific fag shops--so newsagents have closed in large numbers and all cafes and bars have to have radio control on their fag machines to stop kids getting fags--hopefully
Only problem was the Spanish banned fag sales from all outlets except specific fag shops--so newsagents have closed in large numbers and all cafes and bars have to have radio control on their fag machines to stop kids getting fags--hopefully
Andy: I reckon Mr E's problem is just the way it was done. He is certainly no ban fan.
In the past he has described various UK bans as "stupid vindictiveness", "dog's dinner", "Smoking fascism", and "nanny-state health fascism at its worst".
And on ASH, "Pressure groups like ASH are monomaniacal fascists who seem to be labouring under the delusion that my lifestyle is any of their fucking business".
It's why he's on my blogroll.
(I take cash or cheque, Mr E) ;-)
In the past he has described various UK bans as "stupid vindictiveness", "dog's dinner", "Smoking fascism", and "nanny-state health fascism at its worst".
And on ASH, "Pressure groups like ASH are monomaniacal fascists who seem to be labouring under the delusion that my lifestyle is any of their fucking business".
It's why he's on my blogroll.
(I take cash or cheque, Mr E) ;-)
Good for the Greeks. Okay, "exclusively smoking" does sound a little daft, but I'm sure won't mean non and ex smokers aren't welcome. The only thing that's really daft is the 70 square meter rule. Why should a 69.9 sqm place be able to choose to be entirely smoking or non smoking, but a 70.1 sqm place not have any option but to put in separate smoking and non smoking areas? Arbitrary limits always create issues like this. If they really felt they had to have a law why not just do the non smoking and "exclusively smoking" part for premises of any size?
Aye as one commenter says this happens in Spain and it works well.
You know you can smoke if there is an ashtray on the table. Doesn't seem to be a problem over there.
You know you can smoke if there is an ashtray on the table. Doesn't seem to be a problem over there.
"anonymous" (01 July 2009 19:15) "... all cafes and bars have to have radio control on their fag machines to stop kids getting fags--hopefully"
In my experience (I live in Spain for part of the year) it's a restriction that's solved in a typically Spanish way - they tape the remote control to the front of the fag machine! :-)
In my experience (I live in Spain for part of the year) it's a restriction that's solved in a typically Spanish way - they tape the remote control to the front of the fag machine! :-)
In the smoking pubs, you just make a rule that non-smokers don't have to light up, so long as they blow bubbles.
Claudius
Claudius
Hi
The law in itself is not completely bad - the problem is (1) the near complete lack of enforcement here in Chania Crete, and (2) as you point out, the silly Greekness of dropping a law like this on the populace without loads of prior explanation well in advance, absolute clarity, and stern enforcement early after implementation.
Nearly all premises less than 70 sq m in Chania are smoking premises but there are no signs or stickers.No-one ever comes around to check and issue fines. Those less than 70 sq m that admit minors CANNOT be smoking premises. Under the law, a cafe/taverna < 70 sq m that fails to declare itself as smoking is *automatically* a non smoking premises. This is all widely ignored outside of Chania and sometimes inside.
Many premises >70 sq m have ignored the law completely or failed to understand the required separateness of the smoking area. The smoking area is supposed to be physically separate ie separate air conditioning and no intermingling of air. Otherwise it makes no sense.
I repeat there appears to be ABSOLUTELY *NO* ENFORCEMENT of the law in Chania. How many fines have been issued? I bet none. And bus and taxi drivers are still smoking, that was illegal long before this law. No enforcement.
Tavernas on the port are totally enclosing their outdoor areas in weather proof plastic and canvas for the winter, effectively turning these into indoor areas. Smoking continues heavy and unabated in these "outdoor" areas.
Perhaps the worst failure by the government is the total lack of effective health promotion and education about the serious dangers of secondary smoking. Most smokers,in the expected self-centered way, seem to assume the law was introduced to personally frustrate their desire to smoke. It has nothing to do with them, it's about reducing exposure to secondary smoke. But no-one has explained that to them, least of all the government.
Then there are the pathetic attempts at anti smoking tv advertising. The only one I saw looked like it had been produced by film students for 100 Euro and was only allowed to be shown after 12 midnight! What's the betting Brussels sent Greece a few million euro for that and it's vanished?
The law in itself is not completely bad - the problem is (1) the near complete lack of enforcement here in Chania Crete, and (2) as you point out, the silly Greekness of dropping a law like this on the populace without loads of prior explanation well in advance, absolute clarity, and stern enforcement early after implementation.
Nearly all premises less than 70 sq m in Chania are smoking premises but there are no signs or stickers.No-one ever comes around to check and issue fines. Those less than 70 sq m that admit minors CANNOT be smoking premises. Under the law, a cafe/taverna < 70 sq m that fails to declare itself as smoking is *automatically* a non smoking premises. This is all widely ignored outside of Chania and sometimes inside.
Many premises >70 sq m have ignored the law completely or failed to understand the required separateness of the smoking area. The smoking area is supposed to be physically separate ie separate air conditioning and no intermingling of air. Otherwise it makes no sense.
I repeat there appears to be ABSOLUTELY *NO* ENFORCEMENT of the law in Chania. How many fines have been issued? I bet none. And bus and taxi drivers are still smoking, that was illegal long before this law. No enforcement.
Tavernas on the port are totally enclosing their outdoor areas in weather proof plastic and canvas for the winter, effectively turning these into indoor areas. Smoking continues heavy and unabated in these "outdoor" areas.
Perhaps the worst failure by the government is the total lack of effective health promotion and education about the serious dangers of secondary smoking. Most smokers,in the expected self-centered way, seem to assume the law was introduced to personally frustrate their desire to smoke. It has nothing to do with them, it's about reducing exposure to secondary smoke. But no-one has explained that to them, least of all the government.
Then there are the pathetic attempts at anti smoking tv advertising. The only one I saw looked like it had been produced by film students for 100 Euro and was only allowed to be shown after 12 midnight! What's the betting Brussels sent Greece a few million euro for that and it's vanished?
From what I read the smoking "ban" in Spain has been total failure in terms of reducing exposure to secondary smoke because there they use a threshold of 100 sq m instead of 70 sq m.
Since nearly all places are <100 sq m, this means there are effectively no non-smoking bars or restaurants anywhere in Spain. Ergo, the law achieved nothing.
Italy, on the other hand, went for a much stricter law and it has worked. The law there has been accepted and understood by Italians, who are heavy smokers like Greeks, and is enforced by the police.
In Greece, however, under this limp unenforced law, there is still nowhere I can go for a drink without setting off my lung condition which can mean being very sick for weeks.
Post a Comment
Since nearly all places are <100 sq m, this means there are effectively no non-smoking bars or restaurants anywhere in Spain. Ergo, the law achieved nothing.
Italy, on the other hand, went for a much stricter law and it has worked. The law there has been accepted and understood by Italians, who are heavy smokers like Greeks, and is enforced by the police.
In Greece, however, under this limp unenforced law, there is still nowhere I can go for a drink without setting off my lung condition which can mean being very sick for weeks.
<< Home
